了解「型」與「心」的不同：Osada Steve 長田スティーブ 專訪

不專業採訪記者: Mai Maya
整理與編輯: Nawakiri Shin
現場中英日口譯: Man-Chin Lo
同步刊載於縛.生

本搞採訪於 Osada Steve 的 Studio SIX ，每周一繩縛沙龍。

Osada Steve 公式網頁：http://www.osadasteve.com/

在 2005~06 年的時候，透過其他繩師我認識了 Osada Steve。之後居日期間在活動中巧遇 Steve, 他問我何時要去讓他綁。(笑) 之後我不定時擔任 Steve 繩縛教學以及攝影會的模特兒長達一兩年的時間。在 Steve 的介紹與牽線下跟杉浦則夫老師拍攝的照片也是由 Steve 擔任繩師。在 Studio SIX 道館，有許多夢想與學習的事。

Osada Steve 原籍德國，住在日本，對於在歐美發揚日式繩縛貢獻卓鉅。然而，中文圈的人們對他還是比較陌生。藉由這次的訪問，我們希望讓更多朋友認識 Steve。

以下 Maya 簡稱 M, Osada Steve 簡稱 OS。

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M: 為什麼會想把日本的繩縛帶到歐美圈呢？

OS: 其實一切都發生得很自然。我在這裡和我的老師(長田英吉)學習，知道緊縛是什麼。我又會英文、德文，因此當外國人問我時，我能和他們解釋：緊縛不只是「型」，還有「心」和哲學。我和其他日本繩師不同之處，可能是我能和外國人解釋緊縛的哲學，他們則無法。這也是我的優勢。

M: 您從何時起在歐美辦繩縛教學？是在歐美開課後吸引許多學生來日本，還是因為許多歐美學生來日本學繩縛，才決定在那兒開課的？

OS: 我是個生意人，在柏林跟日本都有公司。在柏林做生意時，朋友想知道繩縛的事，我便自然而然地開始教他們。我在柏林開課時也許是2006 或 2007年（確切時間得用電腦查查）。但在那之前，我已經將照片和教學放在網路上。有一點是很重要的：外國人看了那些照片，也想學著綁，但如此學不到繩縛的感受、與繩的張力。如果只學會綁「型」，那是空的、沒有情感的。這是外國人無法理解之處。我教他們的就是運用情感、運用「心」。像剛才 Maya 綁 Y 先生時，我認為她就用了「心」。有些外國人不懂，他們只知道一直綁一直綁，根本不在乎對方的感受。

IMG_4271

M: 的確，學得到「型」卻學不到「心」也是目前亞洲圈的大家遇到的問題之一。我們想知道 Steve 的教學方式：您都教學生些什麼？在教學上遇到過甚麼樣的困難？

OS: 你得知道「型」與「心」的不同。光學「型」是沒有用的，你得學會用心、用情感去體會。你們剛剛遇到一位秘魯來的學生，他來上十天、每天五個小時的課程，其中我教的主要就是「心」。例如，如何碰觸對方？妳可以問問SU，你們也看到了我怎麼綁她的。我不去碰她的胸部或是下體，而試著用繩把我的感情傳達過去。有時直接，有時用繞遠路的、柔軟的方式。如何抓到對方的節奏？這是我主要教的。像剛剛沙龍中的 O san，他綁得又快又漂亮像工程師一樣地工整，這我做不到。我的繩子綁得亂七八糟，但我喜歡讓對方感受繩縛。

IMG_4272

M: 我們可從照片中感到 Steve 這幾年的風格轉變。是因為前陣子生病嗎？或有其他原因？

OS: 確實，我前陣子病得很重。現在我對能食物覺得感激。一般人習以為常的小事都能讓我體會到生命美好。但關於我的繩子，只能說，人總是會變的。我的想法確實變了不少，但我不認為那是因為病情。人總是在成長，Maya chan 也一樣的。並不只是技巧越來越好，專注的事情也會漸漸改變。我現在較專注在寢技(*)上。以前我做過上千場馬戲團式的表演，現在我不再那麼常表演了，因為那違反了我現在的原則。那是馬戲團，不是繩縛、不是緊縛。現在我較喜歡寢技，像我剛才綁 SU 一樣。這種繩子綁得不漂亮，是不能給付錢的觀眾看的。但我們彼此的感受是愉悅的。

(*) 寢技: 指地板上的繩縛，不把人吊在空中。

M-C. L: 你剛才說到『馬戲團』表演與緊縛的區別。可以多解釋些嗎？

OS: 緊縛對我來說是重大的事。我每天醒來想著的是緊縛，晚上做夢也是緊縛。如何珍惜它、如何榮耀它、如何讓緊縛更好？我覺得去表演那種馬戲團式的猴戲並不是好的。我希望多教給一些人。在我週六晚上的四小時現場節目中，我可以決定我自己的節奏。如果只有二十分鐘的表演，我只能快快地綁，那不是我要的。我不在乎別人看不看我，因此我並不特別喜歡上台表演。但，因為我做過那麼多表演，在其中一直重複練習，因此我能綁得很快、很好。表演是很好的學習。所以我並非主張大家都別表演了。表演的壓力能讓人進步，那對學習是好的。但我已經過了那個階段。我不再需要那種馬戲團表演，而可以專注在學習更多、了解更多，並把這些教給人。

IMG_4285

M: 請問Steve, 對您來說，緊縛是什麼？

OS: 如果你要我的定義的話，「縛り」指的是技術面的東西：如何去綁那個型。如果你注入你的情感、你的愛，讓兩人之間有了溝通，那就是「緊縛」。

M：亞洲仍有許多初學者在學習緊縛的過程中碰到瓶頸，請問您對他們有什麼建議？

OS: 我大部分的學生學緊縛並不是想要成為出名的繩師，而只是為了兩人彼此的愉悅。這才是緊縛主要的趨力。因此，你不需會吊縛、也不需很高的技術。重點是去了解如何享受。用你的心，那是你唯一需要的。

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